23 Mar 2011

BC Civil Liberties Association lawyer defends adult human rights in polygamy case, no mention of children's rights



National Post - Canada March 19, 2011

Q&A: Why a B.C. civil liberties group says polygamists should be left alone

by Sarah Boesveld



The polygamist religious sect of Bountiful, B.C., has for years been subject to intense scrutiny.And now the very law that criminalizes polygamy is under the microscope, with final arguments about its viability filed in a B.C. Supreme Court this week. While the government defends the law, the British Columbia Civil Liberties Association wants polygamy decriminalized. The group’s litigation director, Grace Pastine, spoke to the Post’s Sarah Boesveld.

Q: It’s been said that you’re siding with Bountiful in your quest to deem Canada’s polygamy laws unconstitutional. Is that the case?

A: We do not as an organization endorse or condone polygamy or plural unions generally. We don’t endorse or support any particular polygamist community. And for that matter, we don’t condone monogamy, celibacy or anything in between. Our message is very simple: Individuals should be free to make the life choices they wish to make, so long as those choices don’t harm other people and they engage with them with free, informed and full consent.

Q: How does the law violate the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms?

A: The law is unconstitutional because it violates an individual’s liberty and her right to privacy. This law intrudes into the most intimate aspect of an adult’s life, that is the decision about the best family arrangement that meets his or her needs and aspirations. It erodes the dignity of people that are involved in plural relationships and denies them the privacy that is available to other couples that are in monogamous families.

Q: If it’s so unconstitutional, why are people adamant about keeping polygamy illegal?

A: I think it’s challenging for people to be confronted with choices that are very different from their own and that might initially or continually seem strange or even distasteful. And that’s where it’s key to remember the principle of tolerance, the glue of a pluralistic, democratic society. Part of living in a free and democratic society is being tolerant of the choices other people make, even when those choices might be very different or seem very odd.

Q: Your court argument invoked former prime minister Pierre Trudeau when it said the current law “invites the state to inspect the bedrooms — and kitchens and living rooms — of consenting adults who find fulfilment in plural relationships.’ Was that intentional?

A: It was playing on that quote, and I think it resonates with people. Instinctively, most Canadians understand that the state shouldn’t be telling them whether or not their deeply personal choices in this area are legitimate or not. The government shouldn’t be telling Canadians whether or not they should be in a plural relationship anymore than it should be telling adults that only lifelong monogamy is acceptable or that divorce isn’t permitted. Those simply aren’t choices for the state to make.

Q: When people think of polygamy, they almost always think of exploitation and abuse of children and women. How do you expect to steer attention from that to people’s core constitutional rights?

A: We certainly understand and believe that terrible crimes have been committed against some participants in polygamous relationships and that there is terrible abuse that has occurred in polygamous communities. That, I think, is beyond debate. And certainly those abuses need to be prevented and they warrant the fullest possible redress. But harm can occur in monogamist relationships just as it does in polygamous relationships. The mountain of evidence that was before the court simply didn’t establish there were any harms that were specific and inherent to plural relationships.

Q: So you’re saying polygamy itself doesn’t breed abuse, it’s individuals?

A: That’s right. I think in particularly patriarchal relationships where women have little or no power, few economic resources, it’s more likely that abuse will occur.

Q: So what would then happen to groups like Bountiful if decriminalization occurred?

A: I can’t tell you how exactly people in Bountiful would respond one way or another. What I can say is that the data we have, which is, frankly, not particularly reliable, would suggest that the number of people who engage in plural relationships is very, very small and it is unlikely, if there is decriminalization, that there would really be any change in those numbers. It’s a minority practice and it’s bound to remain that for the future.

Q: Why then take it up as a cause?

A: We’re concerned whenever the state, in our view, unjustifiably seeks to criminalize adult consensual activities that are made freely and with full consent. Certainly the government has considered this a worthy project by outlawing it and then convening a constitutional reference that’s lasted months and brought forth vast bodies of information on the topic. We think it’s important that there is a voice for people that might be too scared to speak up.



This article was found at:



RELATED ARTICLES:



Stop Polygamy in Canada website has notes taken by observers in the courtroom as well as links to most of the affidavits and research the court is considering in this case.


BC Civil Liberties Association tells Canadian court law against polygamy violates personal freedoms, should be scrapped












BC government failed to act on evidence of child bride trafficking after 2008 Texas raid on polygamists







Final arguments in Canadian constitutional hearing on polygamy will be broadcast on TV and Web



Canadian polygamy case hears evidence on high rates of teen pregnancies in fundamentalist Mormon community


For Mormon polygamists in Canadian case religious freedom means enslaving women, sexualizing girls, exploiting boys

Two more plural wives testify in Canadian polygamy case, see no problem with forced marriage or trafficking child brides

Testimony of first FLDS witness in Canadian polygamy case reveals women in denial that their children are being abused

First anonymous FLDS witness in Canadian polygamy case paints cosy picture of plural marriage, seems oblivious to abuses

Affidavit in Canadian polygamy case reveals shocking statistics on child trafficking, child brides and teen mothers in Bountiful

Economics professor considers financial aspects of polygamy that create inequality

Two Mormon fundamentalist women from Utah tell Canadian court positive accounts of polygamy, no hint of abuse

Brother of FLDS bishop describes intellectual abuse, child labour, spiritual abuse and loveless religion in Canadian polygamy case

No freedom from religion for women and children in Mormon polygamist towns where men claim religious freedom to abuse

Mormon polygamist survivor tells court babies smothered to keep quiet, emotional and spiritual abuse worse than sex abuse

Video testimony by Mormon fundamentalist in Canadian court says polygamy provides happy life and harms no one

Survivor tells Canadian court extreme abuses including water torture of babies common in Mormon polygamist communities

FLDS bishop of Bountiful will not testify in Canadian polygamy case so his affidavit will not be read into record

Legal expert tells Canadian court polygamy prohibitions and monogamy tradition pre-date Christianity

The issue of women's rights in the Canadian constitutional review of the polygamy law




Before holiday break in constitutional case judge hears conflicting expert testimony on harms associated with polygamy

Expert in polygamy case says society should assume all members of sects have free choice, but what about children?

B.C. government expert in polygamy case sets out long list of social harms, societies that abandon polygamy do better

Court views video affidavits from Mormon fundamentalist survivors detailing pedophilia, incest, child trafficking and forced marriage

Polygamy expert tells court in constitutional case that it reduces women's freedom and equality and leads to forced marriage

Affidavits from survivors and psychologist's testimony in constitutional case show abusive nature of polygamous lifestyle

Expert witness in constitutional case on polygamy claims Bountiful women freely choose their own religious oppression

Judge allows controversial expert witness to testify in Canadian polygamy case, no decision yet on publication of video affidavits

Pro-polygamy intervenor groups make opening statements as first week of Canadian constitutional case ends

FLDS lawyer in Canadian constitutional case on polygamy claims members freely consent to plural marriage, abuse survivors disagree

Lawyer appointed to argue for striking down Canada's anti-polygamy law in constitutional case makes opening arguments

Canadian constitutional case on polygamy begins with BC government's opening statement

Unique Canadian constitutional case on polygamy set to begin November 22, 2010

Timeline of events leading up to Canadian constitutional case on polygamy which is set to begin

Survivor of abuse by Mormon polygamists documents accounts of sex crimes in the FLDS and other fundamentalist groups

Mormon fundamentalist leader asks court to exclude evidence against him in Canadian constitutional case on polygamy

Fundamentalist Mormon spokeswoman says polygamy doesn't hurt anyone

Mormon fundamentalist claims of religious persecution in Canadian constitutional case on polygamy not supported by the facts

Polygamist leader says BC attorney general guilty of religious persecution

Polygamist leader calls charges religious persecution

More persecution than prosecution

Second Mormon polygamist found guilty of child sex assault, jury doesn't buy defense claim of religious persecution

Claims of persecution ridiculous in societies where Christians have special privileges to indoctrinate children

More pro-polygamy affidavits by Mormon fundamentalists filed in Canadian constitutional case set to begin in November

Judge will allow anonymous testimony from Mormon polygamists in Canadian constitutional case on polygamy

Mormon polygamists seek immunity from future prosecution before giving evidence in Canadian constitutional case

Canadian constitutional case on polygamy triggered by Mormon fundamentalists, but will also examine Muslim communities

Utah law professor uses Mormon polygamists as example of how religious extremism leads to deliberate child abuse

Polygyny and Canada’s Obligations under International Human Rights Law (pdf)

Research paper submitted to B.C. court in constitutional case documents harms associated with polygamy

Man from Bountiful says girls in Mormon polygamist communities "treated like poison snakes", taught to obey men and have many children

Bountiful evidence that polygamy harms women and children - constitutional case likely to reach Canadian Supreme Court

Review of the positions 12 intervener groups are expected to take in upcoming Canadian constitutional case on polygamy

Some religious practices, such as polygamy, are inherently harmful and should not be tolerated in modern society 

Women's adovcates: polygamy is an “oppressive institution” that abuses and enslaves women and children

Prosecuting Polygamy in El Dorado by Marci Hamilton

Senate Judiciary Committee Holds Hearings on Polygamy Crimes: What Needs to Be Done at the Federal Level to Protect Children from Abuse and Neglect

Senate hearing: "Crimes Associated with Polygamy: The Need for a Coordinated State and Federal Response."

Texas Will Attempt to Show That Polygamist Culture Itself Harms Children

FLDS defendants complain their religious freedom violated, while denying religious freedom to their children

Children in Bountiful have religious rights too, but are denied them by parents claiming religious freedom 

Some Canadian children are protected from religion-related abuse, while others are not

Polygamy is not freedom

Israeli politicians and women's advocates call for immediate change to polygamy law to protect rights of women and children

New study on polygamy in Malaysia finds evidence of harm to everyone involved

Indonesian Women's Association divided on whether polygamy, which is legal in Indonesia, is harmful to women and children


2 comments:

  1. What about a woman who wants to take a legal husband and a legal wife? Does this fall under the same laws? As it is my choice to bring a wife into my marriage and my husband is accepting and agreeing to my marrying another woman how can the argument that polygamy oppresses woman be made.

    Oppression exists when people fear the lawmakers who are supposed to help them. If the women and children in bad polygamist marriages did not fear persecution perhaps they would seek the same help women and children in bad monogamous marriages seek.

    ReplyDelete
  2. In this case, oppression exists because women and children are so completely controlled in totalitarian religious environments that they have no personal freedoms to belief whatever they want. The oppression comes from their religious leaders and the religious dogma the women and children have been indoctrinated with, not from lawmakers. Plural wives only become plural wives because they have been indoctrinated since birth to believe that it is the only way to salvation.

    The fear of "persecution", as you put it, is more like the fear of prosecution, but either way, that argument is a red herring. The fear is instilled in them by their patriarchal masters in order to control them. The fear is not caused by lawmakers or prosecutors. When was the last time you heard about women and children being charged with crimes related to polygamy? I don't recall any case where women and children escaping polygamous abuse and seeking help were prosecuted by the authorities.

    ReplyDelete